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Post by kerr9000 on Aug 4, 2022 11:20:24 GMT
If your a modern gamer as well as a retro gamer how important is Backwards Compatibility to you, if for example you could play old Xbox games on the new Xbox and that was not true on Playstation would that alter which current machine you would grab....?
Also in reality who do you think is doing the best Backwards Compatibility wise?
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Post by lupogtiboy on Aug 4, 2022 11:32:58 GMT
I have a backward compatible PS3 in my lock-up I bought when they were cheap, I need to sort out a small 'over-heating' issue it has, and then alongside the PS5, I could play any generation of playstation games on one modern tv! Sounds like a win to me!
To me it is something I like, as most people who had a PS1 upgraded to a PS2, then a PS3 and so on, so you already have a decent library of games to fall back on if the current gen games are in short supply, expensive or just disappointing.
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Post by icemann on Aug 4, 2022 12:10:25 GMT
I don't bother much with newer consoles since the PS3 since 90% of games come out on PC anyway, Steam Summer Sales etc, BUT back when I did get consoles yes it mattered. Which is the reason the PS3 I have is one with the emotion chip backwards compatibility as well.
For me the big sellers of consoles is exclusives. Give me killer app games that only exist on your console, but that's not often the case much nowadays. Was more in console generations prior.
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Post by pratty on Aug 4, 2022 12:41:56 GMT
Backwards compatibility is a great selling point but it's not a deal breaker if it's not there. I don't think a company is obliged to include it in their new hardware, it's not like they are taking people's old hardware away from them, a lot of people trade in their old consoles for the latest ones but that's their choice.
Probably the biggest benefit of backwards compatibility to me has to do with displaying previous generation games on modern TVs. For example the Wii didn't have HDMI but the Wii U does so it makes it ideal to play Wii games on these days over the original Wii hardware. Sometimes there is an improvement in resolution etc aswell. And of course it can mean you don't have to have as many systems hooked up to your TV at once.
I'm not sure who does backwards compatibility the best but I think Nintendo has been fair with how they've done it, usually with the previous generation being compatible. But they haven't always done it if the hardware change is significant, which is understandable in my opinion.
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Post by phillv85 on Aug 4, 2022 12:55:11 GMT
It's not by any means a deal breaker to me, but it's definitely a nice little touch. Almost every games I've played on my PS5 has been a PS4 game, likewise on Series X has mostly been Xbox One games. For older generations though I tend to use the native hardware.
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Post by englishinvader on Aug 4, 2022 12:58:17 GMT
For me, it depends on the quality of the backwards compatibility. If it's PS1 to PS2 or original GB/GBC to GBA quality, the yes it's a very good selling point because you've got near 100% compatibility with access to a huge library of games but if it's buggy emulation for whatever games they can be bothered to port over then I would say it's negligible because it's not giving you full access to the older system.
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Post by merman on Aug 4, 2022 13:15:08 GMT
I am glad Microsoft put some effort into backwards compatibility, although they are now ending the 360 games being given away on Games with Gold.
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Post by megamixer on Aug 4, 2022 16:44:55 GMT
It's not a deal-breaker but it's a major plus.
I'm not the kind of person to sell off my previous-gen collection and start over with a new platform so it's infinitely nicer not to have to keep boxes of old hardware or have an overloaded under-the-TV set-up. Wii-U and 3DS were superb BC machines, as were the Wii and PS2 beforehand.
But if there's no BC then I will keep my old system(s). Let's face it: it's not like you can rely on publishers to put all of your last-gen favourites out again digitally without licensing issues, technical problems, a simple lack of will, no financial incentive etc. getting in the way. Plus, older stuff tends to get sneakily revised these days with new versions such as having licensed music removed or content deemed to racy being censored etc.
All of that said, BC hasn't really been a major thing for a long time now. PS3 was never properly BC in my eyes because even the 60GB launch models didn't emulate everything properly, despite all the firmware updates for it. Even then, loads of games don't/didn't work properly. Apparently some of the very first ones sold in either Japan or America (can't remember which) were the very best because Sony actually included the PS2's Emotion Chip for accurate emulation/playback. That soon went to cut costs, however. Even PS1 emu isn't perfect (even though it's less hit-and-miss than PS2) with certain games I have played with the original discs experiencing audio glitches and crashes.
Xboxes have relied on games being made available/supported rather than every original disc just working.
And obviously PS3 games don't work on PS4.
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Post by mattb on Aug 4, 2022 23:08:01 GMT
I guess it depends on how far back you want to go. After all, the PS5 is pretty good when it comes to playing PS4 games; you'll even get frame rate and resolution improvements on some of them. For PS3 and before there's also the PS Plus Premium tier. I suppose you have to pay extra and streaming games isn't the most satisfactory experience, but it's still something that previous generations of consoles didn't get much of a sniff at. The grass might look greener on Microsoft's side of the valley, but they're only offering backwards compatibility with a very limited set of OG Xbox and 360 games. I'd score them both a B grade at the very least.
At the opposite end of the scale, the Switch offers no backwards compatibility at all with 3DS or Wii U. Obviously, physical media wasn't going to fly in a device that's got to be used handheld and with a totally different architecture, but they also didn't lift a finger when it came to digital purchases despite making it possible to tie accounts together and many of the games being ported over. Still, it doesn't appear to have done its commercial fortunes any harm with 111 million sales and counting, and I guess that tells you all you need to know about how little the mass market regards it as a necessary feature.
Personally, I'm not that fussed. It's not like the old consoles stop working the day the new ones are released and you can emulate practically everything these days too.
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Post by RetroBob on Aug 5, 2022 4:10:57 GMT
For me this is a dealbreaker especially since Xbox have done such a good job with their BC programme.
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Post by phillv85 on Aug 5, 2022 9:00:06 GMT
I always find when I got to play a 360 title that it's not supported on BC. Probably my taste in games more than anything(I tend to like the more niche titles), but it is annoying at times.
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Post by megamixer on Aug 5, 2022 10:26:24 GMT
Thing with Nintendo and the Switch is that they are poor at re-releasing their back catalogue given how much there is. Every time a new system or service launches, its the same old Mario 64 and OoT etc. I understand that, commercially, this is what they'd want to do, but it's still rubbish for people who want decent BC.
Where are the Gamecube games? They did Sunshine so it's obviously not technically prohibitive. There are loads of GC games that cost far too much to buy in original form.
And GBA? They started it at one point but barely scratched the surface. Where'a Pokemon FireRed/Leafgreen and Emerald etc.
And surely DS will be getting around to need re-releasing soon.
I just think they are very sluggish.
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Post by pratty on Aug 5, 2022 12:01:11 GMT
Thing with Nintendo and the Switch is that they are poor at re-releasing their back catalogue given how much there is. Every time a new system or service launches, its the same old Mario 64 and OoT etc. I understand that, commercially, this is what they'd want to do, but it's still rubbish for people who want decent BC. Where are the Gamecube games? They did Sunshine so it's obviously not technically prohibitive. There are loads of GC games that cost far too much to buy in original form. And GBA? They started it at one point but barely scratched the surface. Where'a Pokemon FireRed/Leafgreen and Emerald etc. And surely DS will be getting around to need re-releasing soon. I just think they are very sluggish. Though we're ultimately talking about playing old games on current systems I'd say re-releasing games and backwards compatibility are two different things, since BC allows you to make use of old software on new hardware. I agree Nintendo are being very strategic with their back catalogue and I think re-releasing old games makes up for a lack of BC in the Switch, but I'm not sure it's always as simple as dumping their entire catalogue of available games on a new system. For example the DS games on the Wii U had mixed results because of the nature of the DS and Wii U hardware, some games were better suited than others. So I think there's probably quite a bit of optimisation work required and some games maybe near impossible to port in a satisfactory manner. I think Gameboy, GBC and GBA will arrive fairly soon but I think Nintendo have made the decision not to mass release home console games after the N64, since there seems to be more perceived value in releasing those games separately. Which means Nintendo are going to be selective about which titles to re-release and when and how. Ultimately this is why it's worth holding onto old hardware to ensure you can play all old the games. |
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Post by megamixer on Aug 5, 2022 17:13:01 GMT
Thing with Nintendo and the Switch is that they are poor at re-releasing their back catalogue given how much there is. Every time a new system or service launches, its the same old Mario 64 and OoT etc. I understand that, commercially, this is what they'd want to do, but it's still rubbish for people who want decent BC. Where are the Gamecube games? They did Sunshine so it's obviously not technically prohibitive. There are loads of GC games that cost far too much to buy in original form. And GBA? They started it at one point but barely scratched the surface. Where'a Pokemon FireRed/Leafgreen and Emerald etc. And surely DS will be getting around to need re-releasing soon. I just think they are very sluggish. Though we're ultimately talking about playing old games on current systems I'd say re-releasing games and backwards compatibility are two different things, since BC allows you to make use of old software on new hardware. I agree Nintendo are being very strategic with their back catalogue and I think re-releasing old games makes up for a lack of BC in the Switch, but I'm not sure it's always as simple as dumping their entire catalogue of available games on a new system. For example the DS games on the Wii U had mixed results because of the nature of the DS and Wii U hardware, some games were better suited than others. So I think there's probably quite a bit of optimisation work required and some games maybe near impossible to port in a satisfactory manner. I think Gameboy, GBC and GBA will arrive fairly soon but I think Nintendo have made the decision not to mass release home console games after the N64, since there seems to be more perceived value in releasing those games separately. Which means Nintendo are going to be selective about which titles to re-release and when and how. Ultimately this is why it's worth holding onto old hardware to ensure you can play all old the games. I was kind of getting at (badly upon re-reading my post) that there may be many gamers who are happy to get rid of older stuff because they assume or expect old favourites to be re-released digitally thus making BC a redundant wish. Nintendo however aren't great at this. I do think they hold stuff back in order to drop certain titles during periods of financial difficulty or software droughts, which is understandable.
It's just that big games on non-Nintendo formats have been easy to re-acquire digitally (look at the older Resident Evil games for example). By comparison, Nintendo seem to closely-guard everything.
It's why emulation and piracy of classic Nintendo stuff is probably so rife, especially given physical copies of past releases tend to carry the Nintendo "tax" and cost an utter bomb. I missed out on Pokemon HG/SS for the DS for instance - these are relatively modern titles but the price of used copies (even ones without the outer box and Pokewalker device) are ridiculous.
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Post by pratty on Aug 5, 2022 22:12:03 GMT
I was kind of getting at (badly upon re-reading my post) that there may be many gamers who are happy to get rid of older stuff because they assume or expect old favourites to be re-released digitally thus making BC a redundant wish. Nintendo however aren't great at this. I do think they hold stuff back in order to drop certain titles during periods of financial difficulty or software droughts, which is understandable.
It's just that big games on non-Nintendo formats have been easy to re-acquire digitally (look at the older Resident Evil games for example). By comparison, Nintendo seem to closely-guard everything.
It's why emulation and piracy of classic Nintendo stuff is probably so rife, especially given physical copies of past releases tend to carry the Nintendo "tax" and cost an utter bomb. I missed out on Pokemon HG/SS for the DS for instance - these are relatively modern titles but the price of used copies (even ones without the outer box and Pokewalker device) are ridiculous.
[/quote] I do get what you mean. There's probably a sweet spot of making enough of a back catalogue available and still having something to release in future, and it's probably fair to say Nintendo haven't quite hit it. It's been quite an experimental period for Nintendo in this regard, with the subscription service, the mini consoles and limited time digital releases, the seem to be doing a lot more ports and remakes aswell. Seems they're trying various ways of re-releasing old games. It's sort of a testament to the size of Nintendo's back catalogue that they still have so much they could re-release. I also think that up until fairly recently Nintendo, rightly or wrongly, still regarded the Wii U and 3DS as 'current' systems even when the Switch had been released, and were therefore still offering the Virtual Console and those systems' backwards compatibility. |
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Its just some interesting potential opportunities for AI and automation to help and free humans in the future, rather than enslave us. We need General Zod to implement it.