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Post by kerr9000 on Aug 8, 2022 13:09:48 GMT
I wonder if the only way would be with the MiSTer? I.e. hardware emulation rather than software? PlayStation 1 emulation went from too difficult to mostly playable on MiSTer quickly, so it would be interesting to see the community put effort into Saturn emulation. I am wondering if part of the problem is down to a lack of (English) documentation. Sony put hundreds of development kits out there, but the Saturn was predominantly Japanese developers. I would imagine that certainly would have an effect on it. |
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Post by megamixer on Aug 8, 2022 20:16:47 GMT
I am wondering if part of the problem is down to a lack of (English) documentation. Sony put hundreds of development kits out there, but the Saturn was predominantly Japanese developers. From what I have read in RG over the years (and from other sources), it's because the system architecture is just plain weird and was far more difficult to programme for even in period. It was originally designed as a 2D powerhouse but, when Sega saw that the 3D being pushed hard by Sony was going to be the new big thing, they stuck a second processor in there so that the Saturn could deal with 3D. I seem to recall developers saying something about it being much harder to code with two processors in mind and so some games were even completed in a sub-optimal fashion and could have been even better if the teams had had more time to get to grips with the Saturn.
The Japanese are certainly less interested in preserving their own history and emulating from what I have seen but there were some big Western names from the time such as Core, Bullfrog, Crystal Dynamics, and EA that made software for the Saturn.
To me it's more telling that Sega themselves propped the console up with a large chunk of very good games that were clearly programmed extremely well, but they don't seem bothered about resurrecting the Saturn back catalogue. They even lost the source code for Panzer Dragoon Saga and House of the Dead (and probably many more).
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Post by TromaDogg on Aug 10, 2022 1:42:53 GMT
Dual-CPU architecture and 8 processors. I imagine it's a nightmare to get something running, in terms of emulation software that's universally compatible with all Saturn ROMs, or at least acceptably compatible with them all without having to do any tweaking for individual games each time. Even N64 emulation still isn't as good as I'd like it to be. I don't mind using something like a modded Playstation Classic Mini to play most PS ROMs on, but I'll always still use original hardware for the others, at least for now.
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Post by mattb on Aug 10, 2022 2:49:01 GMT
N64 emulation isn't perfect but most games are at least playable at full speed with acceptable visuals, which I'd still think of as being the main goal for systems of its generation. Saturn emulation has always been noticeably worse.
What's kinda funny is how good Dreamcast emulation has been for a long time. I can remember running plenty of games at full speed on my 10" Windows netbook (it being the portable emulation beast of its time) back in 2008. It was also viable on Android long before the N64 and Saturn were.
Ultimately, the main problem Saturn emulation has isn't so much the architecture itself, but the hacky ways in which games use it that makes it necessary to synchronize the functioning of the various chips in ways that don't really matter for a lot of more modern hardware. It's a bit like the Atari 2600 was one of the last 8-bit systems to be emulated well in spite of it being one of the simplest; when practically every game relies upon a certain amount of hot coding just to drive the display, the emulation has to be that much more accurate for anything at all to work.
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Post by megamixer on Aug 10, 2022 17:47:25 GMT
Ultimately, the main problem Saturn emulation has isn't so much the architecture itself, but the hacky ways in which games use it that makes it necessary to synchronize the functioning of the various chips in ways that don't really matter for a lot of more modern hardware. It's a bit like the Atari 2600 was one of the last 8-bit systems to be emulated well in spite of it being one of the simplest; when practically every game relies upon a certain amount of hot coding just to drive the display, the emulation has to be that much more accurate for anything at all to work. Yeah, I do recall interviews with various people who worked on the Saturn where they talked about all the workarounds and crazy things they had to do just to get games working. |
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Post by sega2006 on Aug 10, 2022 20:34:39 GMT
I remember someone working on something years and years ago on DCEMU, the Saturn was and kinda still is very complex by todays standards, I'm happy enough to use my original hardware but could do with something a little less invasive to get around the aging laser issue than fully removing the optical drive.
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Post by dbloke on Aug 19, 2022 16:17:58 GMT
Well...........
Saturn emulation isnt perfect but it apparently works these days
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Post by kiwimike on Aug 19, 2022 21:16:51 GMT
I find it a real shame Sega hasn't opted to do a Saturn (and MSM) mini.
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Post by mattb on Aug 20, 2022 0:16:11 GMT
I find it a real shame Sega hasn't opted to do a Saturn (and MSM) mini. In all honesty, I'd think that with current technology it'd just be a bit of a disappointment, even more so than the PlayStation Classic was. At least you could hack that and put better emulators onto it.
The Saturn needs much more powerful hardware for emulation that's not nearly as accurate and, combined with the need for more storage and complex controllers, that'd push the price up a lot. Would you be prepared to pay $150 for one that could only do about twenty games and with somewhat iffy emulation at times? The idea loses a lot of its sheen once you look at the practicalities.
I suspect Nintendo shied away from making an N64 Classic for much the same reasons. At least by putting the games on the Switch they could at least patch the emulation towards respectability over time though.
Plus, in the grand scheme of things, there's not nearly as much nostalgia for the Saturn. The Dreamcast would probably be in the queue ahead of it, even. You'd think that Sega could probably do something with the Master System though.
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Jul 20, 2024 21:22:44 GMT
Jul 20, 2024 21:22:44 GMT
Its just some interesting potential opportunities for AI and automation to help and free humans in the future, rather than enslave us. We need General Zod to implement it.
Jul 29, 2024 19:50:33 GMT
Its just some interesting potential opportunities for AI and automation to help and free humans in the future, rather than enslave us. We need General Zod to implement it.
Jul 29, 2024 19:50:33 GMT
Aug 2, 2024 21:38:20 GMT
Aug 2, 2024 21:38:20 GMT